NATALIE BARR: Labor is planning to use its revamped tax cuts to target Coalition seats heading into the next election. New research shows 85% of taxpayers in electorates held by the Liberals and the Nats will be better off under the government's overhaul. The Prime Minister has ruled out making any more changes as he turns to the crossbench to secure the numbers to get the deal done. We're joined now by Social Services Minister Amanda Rishworth and Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume. Good morning to both of you. Amanda, can the PM really say there won't be any more changes when Labor needs support in the Senate to pass the tax cuts?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, what we've put forward is a clear plan that is providing more tax cuts for more people, particularly focused on those doing it toughest in a cost of living crisis. And it really will be up to the senators about whether they support bigger tax cuts for more people. So, of course, uh, Labor will be talking to the crossbench, but the coalition could also support these tax cuts, recognising that many people are doing it tough, particularly in middle Australia particularly on incomes of 100,000 $120,000 and actually support these tax cuts. So there is a question for the coalition. Of course, we will work with the crossbench, but we've put forward, uh, what is the best plan for the country right now? Uh, it will not add to inflation, but will give cost of living relief to those Australians that are doing it tough at the moment. And the question is on the Coalition and of course, the crossbench of whether they will support this better plan.
NATALIE BARR: Yeah. Jane, have they painted you into a corner? 85% of people in Coalition electorates are apparently going to benefit from this. Are you going to support it?
JANE HUME: Well, forgive me, Nat, if we decide not to make a decision on this legislation until we've actually seen the details, because the Prime Minister has lied to the Australian public not once, but over 100 times. And that's just since the election. He cannot be trusted. We want to make sure that we understand exactly what the details are of this legislation, exactly how it won't be inflationary. Amanda, before we make a decision, let's face it, the Prime Minister has looked Australians in the eye and he has lied directly. How can we trust him? How can we trust you, Amanda? Because you like your cabinet colleagues, like your caucus, have followed a lying prime minister off an integrity cliff.
NATALIE BARR: Jane, hasn’t Treasury said it's going to be inflation neutral? And most of Australia, according to the polls, seems to have made up their mind and they like it.
JANE HUME: Well that's exactly what we want to do. We want to ask Treasury how that can be the case. That's why my cost of living.
NATALIE BARR: So, you don't trust Treasury?
JANE HUME: That's why my Cost of Living committee has called a hearing into these tax cuts next week. And we can hear from them directly so they can show us the numbers that determine that outcome, because if you speak to any economist, that simply doesn't seem right. I would imagine that there are millions of Australians right now that are profoundly disappointed, not just that they didn't get their $275 electricity bill cut. Not just that they're not better off under Labor, as they promised, but because they were promised a tax cut and they won't be getting it.
NATALIE BARR: Jane, on this subject though. Are you saying that Treasury has got the numbers wrong on this? Because they're saying it's fine, it’s not inflationary.
JANE HUME: We haven't seen the details Nat.
NATALIE BARR: Do you need detail?
JANE HUME: Absolutely.
NATALIE BARR: So if the Treasury comes out and says it's fine-
AMANDA RISHWORTH: It's out there Jane.
NATALIE BARR: Do you need more than that?
JANE HUME: The government has proven themselves consistent liars. They put booby traps in legislation and we haven't-
NATALIE BARR: So let’s put the government out of the way, the Treasurer has come out and said it’s fine Jane.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: I just want to make the point-
NATALIE BARR: So you don't trust Treasury?
JANE HUME: I don't trust you, Amanda. I don't trust your Prime Minister. I don't trust your Treasurer because you have lied.
NATALIE BARR: But the question was, so you don’t trust Treasury Jane?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: I think I need to get to respond to this.
NATALIE BARR: Yes, Amanda.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: There is Treasury analysis out there. We released that Treasury analysis, and I encourage you to read it Jane.
JANE HUME: Where’s the legislation? Because we haven't seen it yet. I encourage you to read the legislation. Have you seen the legislation?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well firstly you-
NATALIE BARR: Okay, Jane let’s let Amanda speak.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Firstly, the Treasury analysis is out there. It's very detailed. We're not hiding anything. But Jane, the fundamental question remains the detail of this change is out there. Those who will benefit are out there.
JANE HUME: Then show me the legislation Amanda. Don’t spring it upon us at the last minute.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: You seem to be trying to buy time, by walking back, walking back on what Sussan Ley said, who said she would roll this back and increase tax for Middle Australia. We mean you're all over the shop. You're divided.
JANE HUME: We will always support lower and simpler taxes. You’re the one who’s gone back on your work. You are the untrustworthy one.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well you should support this legislation.
JANE HUME: Australians have no reason to believe you ever again. Negative gearing, tax on the family home-
AMANDA RISHWORTH: You should vote for this legislation.
JANE HUME: Why would anyone believe you?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: This is over the top Jane.
NATALIE BARR: Okay. I think we'll have to look. I think we've heard both sides. I think we'll put a pin in this. Um, to be continued. Thank you. See you next week.