Interview with Hamish Macdonald, ABC Sydney

14 April 2025

HAMISH MACDONALD: Senator Jane Hume is here, the Shadow Finance Minister and for the Public Service as well. Very good morning to you Jane.

JANE HUME: Great to be with you, Hamish.

HAMISH MACDONALD: I want to get to the specifics of your proposals. You’re offering $1,200 tax breaks, tax deductible mortgage payments, cuts to the fuel excise and you want to build a nationalised nuclear energy sector. Where does all the money come from from this? Is it all running up debt?

JANE HUME: Hamish, the Coalition are promising a better life for Australians. There's a true choice at this election for your family, for your country. We want a stronger country, a safer country and a better Australia. Now, we need to deal with the cost of living crisis that's faced all Australians right now, because let's face it, we've gone backwards under Labor. Standards of living have fallen by around 8% under Labor. That's why people are feeling poorer, because they actually are poorer. It's the fastest and deepest cut to our living standards in history in Australia, which is quite extraordinary, which is why it's so important that we deal with the cost of living crisis first and foremost, that's why we're offering a cut to fuel excise, first 25 cents a litre, and then after that, when that comes off, there'll be a one off cost of living tax back payment to more than 10 million taxpayers, so that will see eligible low and middle income households receive $1,200 in tax relief when they lodge their return. This is a very targeted cost of living measure that complements that fuel excise relief, and the most important thing is that we tackle that cost of living crisis that Australians are suffering right now, while we clean up Labor's mess and rebuild the economy.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Senator, I can hear your very effective messaging around your policies, but my question was, where the money comes from? Will it be on the national credit card?

JANE HUME: You can absolutely be rest assured that we will go to the next election with a better bottom line than Labor, because we are very concerned about.

HAMISH MACDONALD (TALKS OVER): But it’s still debt though, isn’t it? It’s still running up more debt.

JANE HUME: We are very concerned. We are very concerned about the wasteful spending that we've seen under this government, and the fact that we're now facing $1.2 trillion in debt, and red ink as far as the eye can see in the budget.

HAMISH MACDONALD (TALKS OVER): Senator, I don’t think you’re answering my question. Is this running up more debt?

JANE HUME: Hamish, what I can tell you is that we will go to the budget, to the election, with a better bottom line, the Labor and a plan to structurally.

HAMISH MACDONALD (TALKS OVER): Respectfully, Senator, I heard that the first time you said it. My question is, will this be accruing more debt?

JANE HUME: Hamish, what I can tell you is that we will address the structural deficit that is facing our economy, straight facing our budget over the next 10 years. Labor has no plan to fix the economy. In fact, they have specifically put in their budget red ink as far as the eye can see, they have no plan to fix the structural deficit. Now we have a plan. We've said that we will not rely on windfall gains to continue with recurrent expenditure. That's not a plan, that's a Ponzi scheme. It's only going to get worse.

HAMISH MACDONALD (TALKS OVER): Senator, do you think it matters whether or not politicians are honest with the public? Obviously, Sydney's making up its mind about how it's going to vote. I'm asking you a pretty straightforward question about whether these measures you're promising will accrue more debt for taxpayers, and you're just not answering that question.

JANE HUME: Hamish, I will tell you that we will turn the economy around and I know that we will, because we have in the past. We did it in the 1990s after the recession we had to have when John Howard came in, he paid down the debt and he returned the budget to surplus. We did it again when Tony Abbott came in after the disastrous Rudd-Gillard-Rudd years and in fact, we had a structural balance to this, that we had a balance to the budget in 2019.

HAMISH MACDONALD (TALKS OVER): Senator, Peter Dutton, during the debate last week told us not to look at what some of those governments did in terms of cutting health and education. Are you saying we should look to those periods of government to see how you'll do?

JANE HUME: Hamish, under a Coalition government, we've seen sustained prosperity for all Australians as part of our historically, and we will do so again. Now, I'm not saying that this is an easy task. We're facing structural budget deficits as far as the eye can see. We're facing $1.2 trillion in debt that Labor have given us and made worse. A Coalition government, a Coalition government.

HAMISH MACDONALD (TALKS OVER): So, how will you get that debt down?

JANE HUME: Okay, so there's two elements. One is that we need to make sure that our spending doesn't grow faster than the economy. That's going to take a little while to turn around. A lot of the spending has been baked in. Now we've said there'll be no cuts to frontline services, but Australians can rely on the essential services, that is the promise of this Coalition government. But we also need to make sure that the economy grows faster and we need to inject productivity back into the economy. Now, we do that through lower energy prices. We do that through sustainable budget, government spending and most importantly, we do it through cutting red tape and regulation that's wrapping up big businesses and particularly small businesses, and holding back economic opportunity.

HAMISH MACDONALD: So you said that you'll get rid of 40,000 plus public servants over time, as they leave the public service. What areas of the public service that we're talking about here? I imagine that people run across Sydney as they make up their minds, they want to know which departments, which areas of the public service these jobs might go from?

JANE HUME: So it's important to understand that the public service has grown by 41,000 public servants over the last three years. That's a 24% increase, but you'd be hard pressed to find an Australian that will tell you that they are 24% better off.

HAMISH MACDONALD (TALKS OVER): Senator, please can we just answer some questions in a straightforward way. I can sense that the audience is getting pretty frustrated that you’re not really addressing this.

JANE HUME: No, I think you're getting frustrated because the question that you're asking me is about how we're going to reduce the size of the public service, which costs Australians an additional $7 billion a year, 7 billion.

HAMISH MACDONALD (TALKS OVER): So which areas of the public service do you think will be smaller as a result of the attrition cuts that you're talking about?

JANE HUME: Well, we will not be, we will not be reducing frontline services, that we will make sure that we do this through natural attrition, and we will work with the public servants, with the departments themselves, to find out which areas can be reduced, where we're not delivering services.

HAMISH MACDONALD (TALKS OVER): So at the moment you don’t necessarily know?

JANE HUME: Well, I think that you can safely say Hamish, that when we get into government, we will work with every single department to make sure that we can effectively and sensibly reduce the size of what is now a bloated Public Service, that is not delivering services to the public, because let's face it, a bigger Public Service does not necessarily mean better services to the public. That's what we've seen in the last three years. So we've seen an increase, for instance, to the size of the Health Department by about 40%, but at the same time, bulk billing has collapsed. We've seen the PBS patient refund processes times have blown out from about 40 days to 119 days. Wait times for PBS safety net claims have almost tripled from 34 days to 98 days. Now that doesn't equate to a 40% increase in the size of the public service. It's worse services, but for more money.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Andrew says on the text line, be honest, answer questions directly, and maybe, just maybe, politicians and parties may regain the trust of the electorate. God help the parties if the best they can offer is what we've just heard. Jane Hume, there is a lot of feedback on the responses this morning, I'm talking to the Liberal Senator, Jane Hume, can I ask you to help us understand what your Coalition colleague Jacinta Price meant over the weekend when she said this.

JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE (EXCERPT): I'm so proud to be able to stand beside, to ensure that we can make Australia great again, that we can bring Australia back to its full glory. That we can get Australia back on track.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Jane Hume, is MAGA, make Australia great again, is that a Coalition line? Is that something you agree with?

JANE HUME: Don't be, no, of course not Hamish. Look, we're focused on Australia's best interests, making sure that we deliver for very unique Australian circumstances, with unique Australian approaches. That's Peter Dutton's mission. He wants to ensure that Australians are better off, that we have a stronger economy, a safer community and a better country.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Sure, it’s just a very particular, t's a very particular phrase. We're obviously aware of it from Donald Trump. There's a number of policies, positions, that have been Coalition but I suppose we can all see the parallels with Donald Trump and the U.S administration. There's a DOGE type Government Efficiency portfolio. You're obviously talking about major cuts to the public service, that Peter Dutton, your leader, described Donald Trump as a big thinker. Should we, should we expect more Trump like policies and positions if you’re elected.

JANE HUME: Hamish, I think that that's a great line from the Labor Party, but it's certainly not what Peter Dutton and the Coalition are focused on.

HAMISH MACDONALD (TALKS OVER): What's the line you're concerned about?

JANE HUME: What we want to see at this election is a true choice for Australians, for you, for your family, for our country, we want to build a stronger country, a safer a safer country, and a better Australia. We know that that is the only way to bring our country back on track. We cannot afford another three years going backwards under Labor, as we've seen in the last three years.

HAMISH MACDONALD (TALKS OVER): Jacquie in Phillip Bay is on the line this morning. Jacquie, what's your question for the Senator?

JACQUIE: Oh hello Hamish. Look I’m sorry for Jane, because you are sounding very desperate this morning. Look Jane, we really want more public servants, not less.

HAMISH MACDONALD (TALKS OVER): Why do you want?

JACQUIE: Everybody remembers what happened when the Liberals paid all the money to the accounting firms and they were charging twice as much as public servants were being paid and we don't want to go back to that again thank you. We want to stick with the public servants and we want more people in the ABC so that we know the truth and not lies.

HAMISH MACDONALD (TALKS OVER): Ok Jacquie, I think we will leave it there, doesn't really sound like a question. Senator, obviously, voting opens in a week from now, on Tuesday, from a week from now. Could you just make a pitch to undecided Sydney voters, if they're making up their mind, whether it's on nuclear policy, whether it's on these cuts of public service, what would you say?

JANE HUME: I can tell Sydney voters that a Coalition government will deliver more affordable housing with more options for young Australians to get into their first home. We'll deliver cheaper energy, which is so important to drive the economy. We'll manage the economy better, reining in inflation, getting down that wasteful spending and making sure we drive productivity in a growing and prosperous economy. We will keep your communities safe and will deliver quality health care. That's the promise of a Coalition government. That's the promise of Peter Dutton. Coalition governments have delivered for Australians before. We've delivered prosperity before, and we'll do so again. You cannot afford another three years of a bad Labor Government.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Senator Jane Hume, we appreciate you coming on this morning. Thanks very much.