Interview with Heidi Murphy and Richard Marles, 3AW

16 April 2025

HEIDI MURPHY: We could all vote for a third party candidate, but I am joined in the studio by Senator Jane Hume in the blue corner. And on the line is Richard Marles, Deputy Prime Minister, the pre-election section. I think Jacqui brings you this segment every Wednesday.

JANE HUME: That's right. It's fantastic. We enjoy it greatly.

HEIDI MURPHY: Do you two normally get along in this…

JANE HUME: We do.

HEIDI MURPHY: …or do I need to jump in between you?

RICHARD MARLES: We do. We're long time friends. We co-convene the parliamentary friends of the AFL amongst other things.

JANE HUME: Footy brings us together.

HEIDI MURPHY: Nice. You feeling all friendly and happy and on the same team at the moment?

JANE HUME: Ask me in 20 minutes.

HEIDI MURPHY: All right, give me a confident score about how the party's tracking at the moment, Senator.

JANE HUME: Much better than you would imagine. I have actually never fought an election like this in Victoria where people stop me on the street in some of the most surprising suburbs and say, we need a change. We have to change the government right now. And I'm pretty sure it's because their standard of living has fallen back so far in the last three years. It's fallen back by about 8% or so. So people are feeling poorer and they're viscerally responding to that.

HEIDI MURPHY: Do you think they're visceral about federal Labor or state Labor though?

JANE HUME: I think it's both. And I do believe that there is an understanding that a bad state Labor government here for the last 10 years has economically mismanaged the joint so badly. It's the canary in the coal mine for a federal government too.

HEIDI MURPHY: Deputy Prime Minister, give me your confidence score at the moment about how Labor's tracking?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, I think it's a contest and I think either side could win is the truth of it. And we feel like we're in the midst of a fight. And I mean, I feel happy and we all feel happy about the way in which we've been executing the campaign, if I could put it that way. But this is a close contest. And I think what history says is that the closer you get to an election day, the closer or the more the polls narrow. And I think that is going to happen this time as well. So this is going to be a close contest.

HEIDI MURPHY: The only thing I'm going to say to both of you is that the odds aren't narrowing. They are widening. The gambling odds.

RICHARD MARLES: Well, I mean, gambling odds don't determine the outcome of elections.

HEIDI MURPHY: Well, they're usually a pretty good steer compared to, say, opinion polls.

RICHARD MARLES: But, I mean, I think the way to think about that is if you look at where the odds were back in December, they're in a different place to now, so they can't both be right. Odds move around. I mean, at the end of the day, no one has voted yet. And, you know, everyone is going to make up their mind. And I very much feel that there is a contest at hand here. And I think it's close.

JANE HUME: It is close. I agree with that. Although I disagree. People have started voting because they're beginning to get their postal vote applications now.

RICHARD MARLES: Well that is true, ok. That is true.

HEIDI MURPHY: All right. Richard, give me a campaign high point from your perspective so far.

RICHARD MARLES: Well, I suppose from my perspective, being at the launch on Sunday was, you know, there was a lot of energy at that launch. I obviously was very pleased with the speech that Anthony gave and I think he brought a lot to that and you know it's always I mean it is a moment when obviously you're with the faithful and they need to be sort of moments of high energy but it definitely felt like that and yeah for me it was a buzz.

HEIDI MURPHY: Jane, high point for you in the campaign so far?

JANE HUME: Well look I'm not going to say the launch. I love a good launch they're great fun, they have a good vibe in the air. But actually, I was in my office for only a moment last week and I popped out to get a cup of coffee at three in the afternoon. And between my office and the coffee shop, three people stopped me and said, got to get rid of these guys or keep going. One of them, and this was the real highlight, banged on the window of a tram going past. Now, my office is in Richmond.

HEIDI MURPHY: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

JANE HUME: The People's Republic of Richmond, you know, a Green seat. And this guy banged on the window of the tram and said, go Liberals, go Liberals get rid of these guys. As he was going past, I thought, my goodness.

HEIDI MURPHY: Oh so he's on the inside of the tram shouting out?

JANE HUME: He's on the inside of a tram. That has never happened to me in a campaign in Victoria before.

RICHARD MARLES: There you go.

HEIDI MURPHY: Opposite side of the coin then, low point of the campaign, Jane?

JANE HUME: Look, to tell you the truth, I think the low point of the campaign was the anticipation that it was going to begin and then the next anticipation it was going to begin and the next anticipation. We just wanted the starter's gun to go. Because once the starter's gun goes, then you really, you know, you get moving fast. And that's great. I really enjoy that. Once you get into the real pace of it.

HEIDI MURPHY: Richard, low point for you?

RICHARD MARLES: Yeah, look, I actually, Jane's point's right. I think before anything big, the most difficult thing is the anticipation leading up to the starter's gun. So I definitely felt that as well. Look, I don't, I mean, I enjoy campaigns. I mean, this is going to sound like a very cliched response. I suspect Jane will feel the same. But I know that when I think about any day after May the third it does my head in. So I try to not think about the outcome. I just kind of take it a day at a time to use a football coach as cliche, but if you say in the moment, I mean, it is an extraordinary experience, and it's a real privilege to be a part of, to have a conversation with the Australian people about the future and, and, you know, we obviously are selling our messages and and we get the responses we get. But you can't help but feel a sense of how lucky we are to be living in a country where this process happens and where it happens peacefully.

JANE HUME: That’s true isn’t it. Funny you should say that Richard, because the number of people I've met that say, ‘actually, I don't really like participate in politics. I'm not all that interested’. And that is the sign of a healthy democracy when you can have people that don't feel they need to lean in. Now, of course, we want as many people to lean in as possible. We want people to take responsibility for the government that they elect, but at the same time, when you can have people that choose to opt out, well, that's a good thing. That shows a level of trust in, you know, in the way in the democratic process, in the two party system, in the Westminster system.

HEIDI MURPHY: I will accept both of your answers. However, this is the low point of the campaign for me, so far.

(excerpt of Liberal Party diss track)

HEIDI MURPHY: This is your side. What is going on? Do you support this music choice?

JANE HUME: You know, I was actually talking to somebody about this. Now, this is a sign of age for me. If this had’ve been playing in a shop when I walked in, I would have been that woman that said, ‘Excuse me, can you turn that volume down? I don't blame noise in the background’. That would have been me. But look, it's an interesting. it's an interesting way of speaking to people that might not have been engaged otherwise.

HEIDI MURPHY: Diss tracks for you. Richard?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, look, I have to reveal Heidi that I required an explanation from my staff about what a diss track actually is. That probably is not a reflection on whether this was a good piece of campaigning. It just reflects the fact that I really now am officially a thousand years old.

HEIDI MURPHY: Don’t be like that. We played this a lot early in the week, and I had quite a number of people actually say, yeah, it's not bad. Older listeners…

RICHARD MARLES: Well there you go.

HEIDI MURPHY: If I may

JANE HUME: If it sticks in your head, it's done its job.

HEIDI MURPHY: Well, I’m still talking about it days later.

RICHARD MARLES: The Libs have done a diss track. Katy Perry has gone to space, and the world has become very confusing to me.

HEIDI MURPHY: And Albo and Tanya Plibersek can't it kiss one another on the cheek.

JANE HUME: Yeah, that's kind of weird.

HEIDI MURPHY: That was a bit of a low point.

RICHARD MARLES: This is a beat up.

HEIDI MURPHY: But they would, come on. That was the weirdest.

RICHARD MARLES: Total beat up.

HEIDI MURPHY: That was the most awkward thing I've ever seen Richard.

RICHARD MARLES: It is a complete beat up. But then of the day, Tanya is a valued and revered member of our side. She's a former deputy leader of the party, senior minister in the government, and she makes an enormous contribution, and she's a great person who's a dear friend of us all, as she is very much to Anthony. And the two of them have been working together in politics for decades, and this is an absolute beat up.

JANE HUME: If that's how you treat somebody who's valued and revered, I hate to see what you do with someone that you dislike.

RICHARD MARLES: I mean, it's, look, our, Tanya is sitting in in cabinet as a senior member, making a great contribution to our government. So that's the way in which Tanya is being treated, and she's been treated as we all are, with enormous respect, from a Prime Minister that we really love to work with.

JANE HUME: Alright, well, when you slap her on the back, just make sure it's not a reconnaissance mission for a knife.

HEIDI MURPHY: Oh dear.

RICHARD MARLES (inaudible)

HEIDI MURPHY: It’s a terrible beat up Senator.

RICHARD MARLES: You need better material than that Jane.

HEIDI MURPHY: All right, we'll take a break. We're the halfway point of this segment, at the halfway point of the election campaign. I do want to talk about some policy matters and the argument. The arguments you're having on policy matters ahead.

(ad break)

HEIDI MURPHY: We are in the pre-election section with the Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Richard Marles and the Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume. For both of you, may even find yourself on a unity ticket here. The economists have come for everything either of you have announced on housing in the last week or so. It's going to add to the cost of housing for young people. Do either of you accept that? Jane?

JANE HUME: I absolutely do not agree. The housing crisis that we're facing in Australia is profoundly important, not just because we want more young people to get into homes, more people to own homes. It has profound implications for family stability, for community engagement and mental health outcomes, all of that comes with owning a home, owning your own home. It comes with better economic security in retirement if you own your own home. And look, above and beyond that, it's good for the country, it's good for the nation. It's not just about, you know, a purely economic argument. So we want as many people into homes as possible. Of course, the problem is that over the last three years, we've seen fewer homes built, fewer homes approved, fewer homes started, and the problem is now becoming dire. We need to do something immediately to break the cycle.

HEIDI MURPHY: Richard, are you hearing that from people, or are the economists wrong?

RICHARD MARLES: I don't think the economists are entirely wrong. I mean, firstly, I agree with Jane's assessment of the importance of home ownership. We see it as critically important as well and there's obviously challenges in terms of housing prices. Fundamentally, what we've got to do here is have more homes and that's why we set up the Housing Australia Future Fund, which was opposed by the Liberals. That's why we, on Saturday, committed $10 billion to, an additional $10 billion to see 100,000 new homes built for first-home buyers, specifically for first-home buyers. So we're very focused on getting more houses out there and that will definitely have an impact on making it easier to get into a new home and will have a positive impact on house prices. And obviously, the other point we've done here is to extend the first-time buyer's guarantee, which means that for a 5% deposit, you're able to get into the housing market without incurring mortgage insurance. And again, that's a really important measure that we announced on the weekend as well. But opening up super to purchase a home, get the measures that the Coalition announced in terms of tax deductibility on mortgage payments, all of that is definitely going to push up housing prices. And so when you Look at what the Coalition are doing in respect of this. I mean, what you are going to see is fewer homes because they are against the Housing Australia Future Fund and you're going to see higher house prices and none of that does anything to getting new home buyers into a home.

JANE HUME: Yeah, I think that's absolute nonsense. I mean, let's start with the Housing Australia Future Fund, which was $10 billion borrowed on behalf of the Australian people and it has not built a single house. Not one. Zero.

RICHARD MARLES: Not true.

JANE HUME: Absolutely is true. I asked about this at Senate Estimates, at the most recent Senate Estimates Richard and the officials admitted it hasn't bought a single home, sorry it hasn't built a single home, it's bought homes. Now that's not building new homes and your latest policy is another 10 billion to build 100,000 homes. So that is $100,000 per home that you're planning to spend. You cannot build a granny flat for $100,000. So there is not a chance in hell that you're going to be able to build 100,000 new homes with your next round of $10 billion. You had one policy that failed, you've got another one that's failed. What the Coalition have announced is $5 billion to build the enabling infrastructure on property developments. Obviously, property developers, they line up next to each other and there's a first mover disadvantage because the first one has to build the pipes and the sewage and the water and the NBN and everything else. And then the others piggyback on it. So we've said that we will help with that enabling infrastructure to get property development moving again. We've said that for first home buyers that they can access a proportion of their superannuation and let's face it, it's their money and their savings and it's the best indicator of economic security in retirement is owning a home that will allow them to take money out of their super. When they sell the home, they put the money back into super plus prorated earnings. So they're not rating their super. And for the first five years, which are the most difficult parts of owning your first home, we've said that you'll have tax deductibility of your interest repayments.

HEIDI MURPHY: Go Richard.

RICHARD MARLES: Well, I mean, firstly, we said that we wanted to see 1.2 million homes built through the course of this decade. That's an ambitious target, and 400,000 have been built over the last three years. So to say that there have been no houses built just isn't right.

JANE HUME: But they're not built under your scheme. They're just people building houses.

RICHARD MARLES: What we've done in terms of social and affordable housing is to see more of those built. We've got 28,000 as a result of the policies that we've put in place, which are either under construction or in planning now. And this morning I was in Cairns, which is the single biggest affordable housing project in Queensland's history, which is underway right now. So these projects are underway and they are adding to the housing stock as we speak. And what we see in terms of rating is super is firstly, it is rating people's retirement savings down the track. It shouldn't be either or. We want people to have retirement savings and we want people to...

JANE HUME: And they can.

RICHARD MARLES: But it’s not.

JANE HUME: Do you know what the best thing we could do? We could deregister the CFMEU that have pushed up building prices in Australia for decades and we can get rid of them, Richard. We can do this together.

HEIDI MURPHY: Would you deregister Richard?

JANE HUME (continues): If you just would agree with us, deregister the CFMEU and it will bring down construction costs.

RICHARD MARLES: Deregister the CFMEU as we've talked about before, simply hands the keys to John Setka. It means that you actually remove the ability of the Commonwealth Government to regulate this organisation. What we've done is put in an administrator who has seen a whole lot of officials be taken out of that organisation.

JANE HUME: It's not working.

HEIDI MURPHY: I have to ring the bell. I'm sorry. Next week, we'll return to it all. Thank you, Jane Hume Thank you, Richard Marles

JANE HUME: Thanks, Heidi.