Interview with Jacqui Felgate, 3AW

9 April 2025

JACQUI FELGATE: Well, I've got them both in the studio today. The Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister, Richard Marles and Shadow Finance Minister, Liberal Senator Jane Hume, hello to you both.

JANE HUME: Hello Jacqui. Hello, Richard.

JACQUI FELGATE: How are you? We're sort of at the halfway point. Almost. How are you both feeling?

JANE HUME: Doesn't feel like halfway.

RICHARD MARLES: Oh, a little bit to go until i’m feeling like that.

JANE HUME: We're not at hump day just yet.

JACQUI FELGATE: No, but you're holding up okay?

RICHARD MARLES: Yeah, we're holding up okay.

JACQUI FELGATE: So I'll ask you first. How did, Richard, how did the Prime Minister go in your opinion last night?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, we were very happy with how he went. I was there at the debate and, you know, I think he gave a really good articulation of Labor's policies. What we're trying to do in terms of, on the one hand, helping people with the cost of living, while on the other hand, getting inflation down, which is what we've done. I think that what we saw from Peter, which is what we have been seeing, in my view, is, largely a policy free zone, um.

JANE HUME: Oh, nonsense.

RICHARD MARLES: Well, with the exception of, uh, the nuclear power politics.

JACQUI FELGATE: I’m going to get to this in a minute.

RICHARD MARLES: But I think, uh, you know, there wasn't a lot to say there. Um, what is frustrating is that when the pressure is on with Peter, he starts lying.

JANE HUME: Oh!

JACQUI FELGATE: He has come in and gone and bang today.

JANE HUME: Goodness me. Your nose is getting bigger now, Richard.

RICHARD MARLES: Well, he. Okay, well, we go through it. He said that, um, in 2014, there were no cuts to health, no cuts to education.

JANE HUME: And there weren't.

RICHARD MARLES: Well, okay. So what I'll get your listeners to do, Jacqui, is to Google Mike Baird 2014 Federal Budget and you will hear a Liberal Premier the day after the Budget, saying that the cuts to education funding were a kick in the guts. Um, so certainly Liberal Premiers at the time thought that education funding was being cut. He said that he handed over a set of balanced books at the in 2022. When you look at the budget papers and what was being forecast was a $78 billion deficit, which we obviously turned around to a $20 billion surplus. He said that there's an $80 billion cut in defence. In fact, there's a $56 billion.

JACQUI FELGATE: Well, we're not having, we're redoing the debate. I actually thought it was pretty boring, to be honest. But, can I get you to respond, then?

JANE HUME: I think most people are political junkies that thought it was interesting.

JACQUI FELGATE: Yeah, well, look, I didn't think there were any exciting moments in it. You know how sometimes you get those moments in the debate, and it's sort of, everyone's gripped by that? I felt like the whole thing was just a little bit formulaic, to be honest. But how did you think Peter Dutton went?

JANE HUME: I thought Dutts did very well indeed, actually, particularly on the economic management side of things. There was a moment where which I thought was a really interesting idea, where, uh, Kieran Gilbert got both Peter Dutton to ask Anthony Albanese question and Anthony Albanese an opportunity to ask Peter Dutton a question and Dutts’ question to, uh, to the PM was about whether his government was the highest spending government since Whitlam and the Prime Minister said, no, it wasn't, but that's not true. In fact, the Albanese Government is now spending more than any other government has, including the Coalition, during the pandemic. Now that I think is eye watering.

JACQUI FELGATE: Okay, you just called him Dutts four times. Is that his nickname?

JANE HUME: Everybody's laughing at the back. Sorry. That's really bad.

JACQUI FELGATE: I asked him when he came in what his nickname was. It wasn't Dutts. Is that his nickname?

JANE HUME: Sorry, that was a little bit overly familiar, wasn't it? The Leader of the Opposition.

JACQUI FELGATE: Is that what you call it? Is that what you call him?

JANE HUME: Well, yeah, I think his colleagues, yes. Don't you? Is that a terrible surprise?

JACQUI FELGATE: No, it's not terrible. No, I like that. I'm fine with that. Hey, can I just ask you, though, Senator, does the Liberal Party have a women problem?

JANE HUME: Well, as a woman in the Liberal Party I would say absolutely not. In fact, we attract women from all walks of life, all backgrounds. Some of the women that we have running for us are just quite extraordinary. They've got business backgrounds, professional backgrounds.

JACQUI FELGATE (TALKS OVER): A problem with female voters?

JANE HUME: Well, I would hope that female voters see themselves reflected in the diversity that is the Liberal Party.

JACQUI FELGATE: Female voters may be concerned about working from home in the backflip on that policy, particularly when you have been a champion of women in the workplace. Your previous record suggests that. But then to have to wind this policy back to be championing it in the first place and have to bring it back.

JANE HUME: Well, there were good reasons for it in the first place. That was really about the effectiveness and efficiency of the public service, which, as we know, has grown by 41,000 people. Now that is a more than 20% increase. It's absolutely enormous. It's three times the growth in just one term of government that the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd Government had in six years. So it's an extraordinary level of growth. But more importantly, this was a policy that had two elements to it. One was we listened to feedback and there was feedback coming from women that were within the public service that were telling me and telling some of my colleagues that the way that they work is, in fact, more productive when they work from home. Now, I understand that that's a contentious issue. But say, for instance, there was a woman in the Central Coast that was a nurse. She was working for the Department of Health, doing some work about making sure that people don't represent to hospitals, really important work. If she couldn't have worked from home, she wouldn't have been able to do that job. So that's the sort of feedback we're listening to now. That's one element. But the other element was this extraordinary scare campaign that was run by Labor that was directed to women outside of the public service. Now, they said they told women, Labor told women that were working in the private sector, that Peter Dutton was going to make them frogmarch them back to the office.

JACQUI FELGATE (TALKS OVER): But can you understand why they might think that?

JANE HUME: Nothing could be further from the truth.

JACQUI FELGATE: But the optics of that and the initial policy, women felt that way, that the polls would suggest that, and the research is saying that.

JANE HUME: Well, I think it was a very successful scare campaign. But let's put that aside. This was an opportunity for us to say we've listened to the electorate and we've changed our minds. Now, Anthony Albanese has never said that he made a mistake. He didn't say he made a mistake when he promised $275 off your power bills. He didn't say that he made a mistake when he said that your mortgage was going to be cheaper. He didn't say he made a mistake when he said you would feel it in your hip pocket, a Labor government, even though you absolutely do feel it in your hip pocket because you've gone backwards. Your standard of living has gone backwards and you're poorer in three years.

RICHARD MARLES: So was this a mistake?

JANE HUME: That's exactly what Peter Dutton said. He said, we made a mistake, we listened and we made a mistake and we apologise for that.

JACQUI FELGATE: Um, in the middle of a campaign, well, at the start of a campaign to have to make such a significant backflip. Um, and I just want to bring you back to another issue with women. Andrew Hastie has come under fire about comments that he said relating to women and I quote, the DNA of a close combat unit is best preserved if it is exclusively male. Like for female voters, I think that is an issue to hear comments like that.

JANE HUME: Well, A, he said it about seven years ago. He's been both the Minister for, Shadow Minister for Defence and the Assistant Minister for Defence and Government since then and we now have around 460 women in combat roles. That's certainly not the position of a Dutton Coalition.

JACQUI FELGATE: What do you think?

JANE HUME: Well, I don't think, that, it's not Coalition policy. Coalition Policy is to allow women into combat roles. We think that's perfectly sensible. That was Peter Dutton's position as Defence Minister. It's Andrew Hastie's position now as Shadow Defence Minister and I assume it's yours too, Richard.

RICHARD MARLES: It's absolutely my position. But I don't think Andrew Hastie has walked away from those comments. I think that's the issue. I mean, when you look at the statement that Andrew Hastie put out yesterday, he absolutely did not walk away from the comments that he made seven years ago and that's the concern that I have. And in after Ben Britton, who was the Liberal candidate for Whitlam, who was disendorsed by the Liberals for making similar comments, and he then said that his views were the same as Andrew Hastie.

JANE HUME: Which they weren't.

RICHARD MARLES: Well, sure.

JANE HUME: They absolutely weren't.

RICHARD MARLES: So that's fine, but that's why. So I went out yesterday and the aftermath of that and said that Andrew needed to clarify his position, given that, and gave Andrew the opportunity to walk away from the comments he'd made seven years ago, he explicitly did not say he did not walk away from those comments.

JANE HUME: So, Andrew Hastie, I would be very cautious here, Richard, because Andrew Hastie has served our country with courage and valour. He has actually served on the front line in a war zone.

RICHARD MARLES: This is not about his service.

JANE HUME: But it absolutely is. He has done everything right by his country. I think he's entitled to a view. Now, this is not the view.

RICHARD MARLES: But that is his view then.

JANE HUME: It is not the view that he takes now. It is not the view of a Dutton Opposition. It's not the view of Peter Dutton and it's certainly not the view of the Australian Defence Force as it is today and as it was under us when we were in government. So I think you can put that aside. But to disrespect Andrew Hastie, Richard, as the Minister for Defence, having not served yourself and he has served, let's be honest here.

RICHARD MARLES: But I'm assuming you're not saying that service is a precondition for being the Minister of Defence.

JANE HUME: I think it's certainly a precondition for getting respect. This is respect for a man that has put his life on the line for his country.

RICHARD MARLES: Sure. And I've done nothing other than honour Andrew's service and I've actually honoured in it the Parliament and he knows that. Um, but Andrew would also be the first person to say, though, because I know that this is his view, um, that his service is not the basis upon which he wants to be judged as the Minister, as a prospective Minister for Defence, being the Minister for Defence is something different to that.

JANE HUME: I do think it Qualifies him uniquely, though.

RICHARD MARLES: Well, being the Minister of Defence is something different to wearing your nation's uniform and Andrew Hastie absolutely knows that, he has spoken specifically about that. This isn't about Andrew Hastie's service, other than the fact that he says this is the view that he has come to have from, by virtue of that service and, this is a view that he has not walked away from. So what Jane is saying would be fine, were it true in the sense of, uh, Andrew Hastie having walked away from these comments and I accept that people say things many years ago and people absolutely have a right to have a change of opinion. It’s just that when given the opportunity to explicitly walk away from it, he has not.

JANE HUME: But it’s not the opposition’s policy, it’s not Peter Dutton’s position, so why does this matter to you?

RICHARD MARLES: This is the 460 women who are in combat roles today shouldn’t be doing what they are doing.

JACQUI FELGATE: Can I just ask you, on Defence, will you be adding to your portfolio and taking on Foreign Affairs if you were to be re-elected?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, I mean, this is somebody who clearly had nothing else to write about. Firstly, I love the job I'm doing and that’s the job I chose as the Deputy and part of why I love doing it is because of the people you get to work with, those people who have made the big decision to serve their nation and wear our nation’s uniform, including those 460 women. I’ll tell you, the one thing I’m not going to do is speculate about what happens after an election where the Australian people get to decide who is going to be the next government of Australia. I’m in that conversation.

JANE HUME: I bet it was a bit of a surprise to Penny Wong when this was written up?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, Peter Dutton can be out there, measuring up the curtains and looking forward to his harbour views post an election. Right now, we’re focused on the election and I love doing the job I’m doing.

JANE HUME: Have you told Penny? Have you spoken to her? That you are converting her role.

RICHARD MARLES: As the Deputy, the one privilege I get is to choose my portfolio and Penny knows the one I’ve chosen.

JACQUI FELGATE: Alright, well after this, I’m going to come back and we are going to chat about The Greens.

BREAK

JACQUI FELGATE: It is ten minutes to five. It's the pre-election section, with Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles and Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume. Can I ask you, Richard, the Prime Minister has ruled out doing any deal with The Greens. But I guess when you get to that point and you need to form a minority government, like you're going to have to give them something and they want negative gearing off the table.

RICHARD MARLES: Ah, well, we're not doing a deal with The Greens. I can absolutely guarantee that and the Prime Minister, as you say, has ruled it out. So there's not going to be any deals with The Greens. So there's not going to be anything on the table. Um, it's really as simple as that.

JANE HUME: He hasn't ruled it out though, has he? I mean, he did say that if, you know, if it was a hung Parliament, then of course he would negotiate with The Greens.

RICHARD MARLES: He hasn't said that. He's made it absolutely clear that there is no world in which there is any negotiation with The Greens.

JANE HUME: Okay, so if there's a hung Parliament, you won't do a deal with The Greens?

RICHARD MARLES: We're not doing a deal with The Greens. That's absolutely clear.

JANE HUME: You would rather not form government with The Greens?

JACQUI FELGATE: They're going to want something.

RICHARD MARLES: We are not, there's not going to be any conversations with The Greens. We are not doing a deal with The Greens and that's been made absolutely clear.

JANE HUME: You've already gone down now and, um.

RICHARD MARLES: The Prime Minister has been utterly clear in his comments as well.

JANE HUME: Labor have already gone down the path once before of trying to, you know, cut capital gains tax discounts and, get rid of negative gearing and do all those tax changes. So this is not an enormous leap for Labor to then do a deal with the Greens, if that's what it is that they want and you know.

RICHARD MARLES: We're not doing a deal with The Greens. None of those are the policies of our government.

JANE HUME: It used to be.

RICHARD MARLES: Uh, well, none of those have been the policies of our government since we've been elected, and they're not the policy of the government and we're not going to be doing a deal with The Greens. No ifs, no buts.

JACQUI FELGATE: Adam Bandt spoke at the Press Club today, Jane, and he called former Prime Minister John Howard the biggest bastard of them all, for implementing these tax changes to the capital gains tax. Um, I just want to get your reaction to that and just, I guess, respect when it comes to our former leaders?

JANE HUME: Not something that The Greens are particularly renowned for, his respect for former leaders, or indeed current leaders, or indeed colleagues to tell you the truth. Yeah, that was outrageous and look, it demonstrates to me, to be honest, Adam Bandt's, um, economic incompetence too. What he was referring to was the capital gains tax discount that, you know, what an extraordinary thing to call John Howard, such a terrible name over the capital gains tax discount was first implemented because it used to be that capital gains are, to calculate it, it required you to index it. Yeah, you index your base and to simplify it. That's why the capital gains tax discount was introduced. So it's actually like a red tape reduction measure. It's very very logical. Um, and you know, the fact that Adam Bandt doesn't understand that I think demonstrates an awful lot.

JACQUI FELGATE: Can I ask you just to react to that as well?

RICHARD MARLES: I mean, ends up being much less a reflection on John Howard and much more a statement about Adam Bandt, I think. I mean, uh, it's just not appropriate language. Obviously, there's lots that I would disagree with John Howard about, but, uh, John Howard was the Prime Minister of our country for 12 years. Um, he's somebody I've got to know and I value my relationship with John Howard and in that sense.

JACQUI FELGATE (TALKS OVER): What’s your relationship? How have you got to know him over the years?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, I mean, this might surprise listeners, but, um, you know, there is, um, a relationship between people in both parties. Um, John Howard, when I became the Shadow Minister for Defence, I reached out to former defence ministers and people who'd thought in that space and in fact, John Howard was generous in having me, uh, I think we ended up speaking for about an hour and a half, and I picked his brains about how he saw strategic policy, and I'm grateful for that and he's somebody that, um, you know, whenever we've run into each other since, we talk and I mean, whatever, again, there's plenty I disagree with John Howard about, um, but he, is, uh, a person who led our country for 12 years, um, and to be talking about him in those terms, I mean, it's, puerile and it says everything.

JANE HUME: Undergraduate, isn't it? Undergraduate. You know, it's just and John Howard, you're right, has great respect for the Parliament, great respect for colleagues, great respect for the Westminster system and let's face it, The Greens party have none of those things. They are, you know, simply performative and puerile.

JACQUI FELGATE: Now, that's a final question. Nearly out of time, but where are you off to tomorrow?

JANE HUME: Uh, I am heading to Sydney tonight. By the sounds of things that was decided about an hour ago.

JACQUI FELGATE: Pack your bags. Where are you off to Richard?

RICHARD MARLES: I'm in Melbourne tomorrow. Um, so I've been in Bendigo, uh, today, um, and, uh, was in a range of places yesterday. We were, I think Jane and I were comparing notes. We've been day 13. Both of us, I think, have been to seven out of eight jurisdictions.

JANE HUME: Yeah. That's right. The only one I haven't been to is the Northern Territory.

RICHARD MARLES: Yeah, I've not been to Tassie yet, but we've been everywhere else.

JACQUI FELGATE: Okay. Frequent flyer miles are getting up. Thank you both for coming in. Look forward to seeing you next week.