Interview with Natalie Barr, Sunrise

23 April 2025

NATALIE BARR: Well, Labor has come under fire overnight for failing to disendorse a candidate in Queensland over former tweets attacking the Pope and the Catholic Church. Labor's candidate for the seat of Flynn, Helen Madell, says she takes responsibility for the social media posts, which included accusing the late Pope Francis of, quote, “ongoing support of pedos”. The Coalition has urged Labor to dump her as a candidate, but when asked about the posts, Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles declined to condemn them. For their take, let's bring in Housing Minister Clare O'Neil and Shadow Finance Minister Jane Hume, good morning. Clare, we'll start with you obviously. Will Labor disendorse this candidate?

CLARE O’NEIL: Well, Nat, could I just first say how sorry I am for people who are mourning the death of the Pope at the moment. I was, you know, spent almost all my education in the Catholic system, and was raised as a Catholic myself, and I know this is a really painful time for a lot of people. The Pope was a great leader of the church and someone who brought charity and empathy right to the centre of the Catholic Church's activities, which is something that I greatly admired about him. Your question about the candidate, I mean, this is a person who has counselled child sexual abuse victims. She's seen first hand, some of the damage that's been done to families and communities and you know, she made some intemperate comments five years ago and I think if we're counting out anyone who's ever said anything intemperate, then most people in Australia are probably never going to be eligible to sit for Parliament. This is a person with a really important record, who's done very good work with children who really needed help, and I think her feelings are strong and understandable when it comes to child sexual abuse.

NATALIE BARR: Okay, so does that excuse a tweet like this, a public comment like this, using that word?

CLARE O’NEIL: Well, Nat, I don't think anyone's trying to excuse it. I think this is a person who's counselled child sex abuse victims, so I'm sure that we can understand that she's got really strong feelings about this and these were tweets that she wrote five years ago and I just say again, you know, if we're going to use these kind of standards, people do say the wrong thing sometimes, the important thing is that they front up and take responsibility for the comments, and that's what she's done.

NATALIE BARR: Yeah.

JANE HUME: So you wouldn't even condemn the comments, though, Clare? I mean, they really are inappropriate, particularly at the time that we're going through right now, as you rightly said, and they're completely at odds with the views of the Prime Minister. I think this is a good opportunity for you to come out and condemn the comments.

CLARE O’NEIL: Well, really respectfully to you, Jane, these are things that she wrote on Twitter five years ago. These are not things that she said yesterday when the world's in mourning for someone who's been a very important leader for the Catholic Church. You know, I know in politics, it's common for, you know, big ruckuses to be started about these things. The honest situation is, this is a person who wrote some things that she now regrets five years ago on Twitter and I'd say again, Jane, I'm probably, if we can go back five years for you or to or to me, we'd probably said things that we regret.

JANE HUME: I don't accuse people of being paedophiles.

NATALIE BARR: The important thing is that, you know, this woman feels really strongly about this issue as as I do, as you know, people who've had to deal with these issues have, you know, there's, you know, there's a lot of pain out there because of institutional.

JANE HUME (TALKS OVER): So you’re going to defend her rather than condemn her here?

CLARE O’NEIL: There's a lot of pain out there from, you know, institutional child sexual abuse. I don't think that's particularly newsworthy and, you know, she made comments about it five years ago.

NATALIE BARR: Okay, I think we'll leave it there, and we'll move on. A new analysis of News Poll this morning shows women swinging away from the Coalition over the course of the election. Results from January to March of this year had the Coalition in the lead among women, 51 to 49 that has now flipped by five points in April, a large amount, to give Labor a 54 to 46 lead. Jane, are you concerned that pushing for people to get back to the office, which affects a lot of people, could have contributed to that?

JANE HUME: Nat, asking public servants to return back to the office in the same proportions as the private sector was the policy that we had. We've said, decided that was a mistake, because we would have caught up people that that couldn't have fallen into that net, that shouldn't have fallen into that net. But can we be honest about this here? This has been a concerted effort by the Labor Party to sling mud at Peter Dutton, personally. They've done it on every level. They've tried to keep sling mud on the basis of his appearance, his record as a police officer, his record as a small, as a very successful small business person, and when you spend millions of dollars slinging mud, sometimes that sticks. But I think this is really important for your viewers at home to understand. This is the Peter Dutton that I know. Peter Dutton has surrounded himself with more women in his Shadow Cabinet than any other Liberal Leader before I have served as a Member of Parliament under Tony Abbott, under Malcolm Turnbull, under Scott Morrison and under Peter Dutton and Peter Dutton is by far the best leader that I have worked for. His deputy is female. His Leader of the Senate is female. His Deputy Leader of the Senate is female. The majority of his leadership team, a huge number of his leadership team, are female. He has treated women with more respect, more consideration and more conscience than any leader that I've worked with. He is at the forefront of making sure that Australian women go forth with empowerment rather than dependency, we want to make sure that we put all Australians, not just Australian women, in a position where they are not just safe in their own homes, safe in their own communities, but they go forward with opportunities to prosper and succeed economically as well. So, I think this is a very successful mud slinging exercise. I don't think that Clare can possibly defend it. In fact, you know what? I've actually heard Peter Dutton go out when Clare was really under pressure, when she was at her most under pressure in her own portfolio, after releasing all those criminals, Peter Dutton went out and defended her. I'll be interested to see whether he will go out and return the same complement.

NATALIE BARR: Look, we know the internal polling of both parties is putting this closer, and particularly in marginal seats. But Clare, I mean, Jane, is basically saying the Labor Party is paying, spent a lot of money to be mean to Peter Dutton, and it is working. What do you say?

CLARE O’NEIL: Well, I think that's just a whole bunch of excuses that we've heard there from Jane and, you know, Nat, you mentioned this work from home, terrible doozy that the Coalition put forward and just demonstrated that there's just a lack of understanding about what goes on in the lives of Australian women there. I mean, working from home has become integral to how a family, you know, many families in my community.

JANE HUME: So, you’re seriously suggesting that you haven’t thrown any mud, is that right?

CLARE O’NEIL: Do you mind if I speak, Jane, if you don't mind not interrupting me.

JANE HUME: Sling away.

CLARE O’NEIL: This work from home issue. You know, it was a terrible thing to do and I talked to families in my community.

JANE HUME: And it’s not our policy.

CLARE O’NEIL: They're saying to me.

JANE HUME: And it’s not our policy.

CLARE O’NEIL: They're saying to me.

JANE HUME: And it’s not our policy.

CLARE O’NEIL: This is the only way that our family can actually get through the week.

JANE HUME: And it’s not our policy so stop talking about it.

CLARE O’NEIL: I'm so sorry, Jane, can we try to just be polite to each other? You've had your turn. I've been polite, and now I'd like you to be quiet for me.

NATALIE BARR: We've got 30 seconds Clare.

CLARE O’NEIL: So, I think work from home is a real problem.

JANE HUME: But it’s not our policy Clare.

CLARE O’NEIL: It just reflects a broader issue for the Coalition.

JANE HUME: And it’s not our policy Clare, so you can keep talking about it, but it’s not our policy.

CLARE O’NEIL: Jane, you are being so incredibly rude. Jane, please be quiet so I can say something.

JANE HUME: But you're talking about something that is irrelevant.

CLARE O’NEIL: Jane, this is a democracy, and I'm a politician trying to have my say. I listened to you politely. Can you please listen to me?

JANE HUME: But you’re slinging mud and you’re continuing to do so.

CLARE O’NEIL: Honestly, Nat, can you silence her microphone, please?

NATALIE BARR: You know what, I'd love to. I think you got your point across.

CLARE O’NEIL: I don't really feel that I did.

NATALIE BARR: Just ten seconds to wrap it up Clare.

CLARE O’NEIL: This is a really big issue for the Coalition. We are Australia's first majority government, and protecting and defending women is at the heart of everything we do. You've seen us lower the gender pay gap, put proper protections in place against domestic violence, protect those critical things like working from home, lower Child Care fees, better support for aged care workers and child care workers. These things happen when women have a proper voice in a government, as they do in ours.

JANE HUME: As they do in ours too.
NATALIE BARR: Jane, I really think we've each had a go. Thank you very much. We'll see you next week here.